Simit Bhagat, founder of Simit Bhagat Studios, and Prashant Nakwe, a Mumbai-based senior photographer, chat about how photography is an important tool that social development organisations could use to communicate about their work. Prashant also shares some useful tips that nonprofits could use to improve the quality of their visuals.
Prasant is a senior photographer and has worked with a range of publications, including The Times of India, The Telegraph, Mid-Day, and Blitz, among others. His last stint was with The Hindu, where he worked as the photo editor for the Mumbai edition.
Transcript of the Episode:
Simit: So today we have with us Prashant Nakwe, who has been a photojournalist for over two decades now. He has worked with mainstream media publications right from the telegraph to midday to the Times of India and many others. His last stint was with The Hindu, where he worked as a photo editor and was based in Mumbai. He has covered a range of issues, from climate change to the water crisis to the drought in Vidarbha, and also the aftermath of the Iraq War, where he was stationed in Baghdad and covered the city extensively.
His photographs have been published in photo exhibitions in India and abroad. Thank you so much, Prashant, for being on this podcast. It’s really a pleasure to have you here. We have known each other for the last 15 years, I guess. Yeah. There, we worked together. When I was a journalist with The Times of India, we worked together at TOI in Mumbai and covered a few stories, including the Jaitapur story and the protest against the nuclear power plant.
Prashant: Thank you. Thank you, Simit, for having me on your podcast.
Simit: So, Prashant, you’ve been a photojournalist for over two decades now, and you’ve seen photography evolve from analogue photography, where you actually use photo reels and then get them printed. You’ve seen that transformation from that stage to digital. And now that people are moving to videos, I mean, what’s your take on… Do you feel that photography is still as relevant as it was earlier?
Prashant: Of course, photography is relevant. It’s eternal, but it’s an eternal form of art. That’s what I personally feel. I mean, you shoot film, you shoot digital; the other medium may change, but the content and what you offer to your viewers remain the same, and the content, what you think, and what you shoot are up to person to person. It’s a matter of perspective
“Photography is an eternal form of art. The medium may change, but the content will be the same.”
Film photography is a different genre, and digital photography is a different genre. If you have the time, film photography is fantastic. But now, of course, it’s very, very expensive; it’s not cost-effective at all. But that was a wonderful time.
Simit: And I don’t even know whether you still have those digital studios where you would get those photos printed. I don’t know if people still do that even today.
Prashant: Yeah, they do. They do. There are still a few photographers who still practice as they should. only film, and they proudly say I shoot only film. Wow. That’s really nice—actually nice. I mean, you bring that 90s era’s art form. That technique is really important, actually. The future generation must know what film photography is. That’s really important. And many photographers are doing that.
Simit: So while photography as a medium has undergone a lot of change, it still continues to remain a very effective form of storytelling. Could you share your thoughts on why you think that? Despite so many new mediums of communication, photography still remains a very essential part of storytelling.
Prashant: Photography is essential, and really essential forever, because it is the most spoken language and visual language in the world, as everybody’s talking about it and everybody’s shooting about it. So it’s going to be there. Maybe the medium may change, but the thing is, photography is essential because people still remember those who are into this profession, those who are beginners.
They still remember the pictures taken by veterans like Henry Cartier Bresson. Cartier Bresson’s pictures of street life are his iconic portraits. It’s wonderful. I mean, they are the benchmark for photographers who are starting their careers. They look at it as a benchmark book, a black book for their career.
Raghu Rai’s picture of the Bhopal gas tragedy, which won him the world prize heavily, and Joe Rosenthal’s picture of all the American soldiers putting up the American flag are iconic pictures. Alfred Eisenhardt’s picture of the sailor is a kissing sailor picture that was again the iconic picture. And even now, I mean, after 56 years, people still remember those pictures, right?
Raja Deen Dayal’s picture, Raghu Rai’s picture, Raghubir Singh’s picture, street photography, Banaras images—it’s iconic. So people will remember the iconic images and the images that convey the message. I will never keep seeing that again and again. We will always have a greater impact on the viewers and the readers.
“Images will always have a greater impact on viewers and readers.”
Simit: Yeah, I mean, when I was studying journalism, one of the visuals that still remains with me was the image of the boy and the vulture—you know, the boy from Africa?
Prashant: Yeah, that’s Carter, Jimmy Carter’s picture. But that picture created havoc. I mean, people got to know, though, the intensity, what the famine is, and what the drought is. I mean, how does it affect people really effectively? And it should reach the audience. And when you get such images, when you actually understand the subjects, when you are involved with the subjects, when you spend more time with the subjects, when you move around, and when you have a good background study of the subject, that really helps you get the right picture.
Simit: By now we have seen that photography is a medium that a lot of people in the past have used to tell important stories, stories that have remained with people for a very, very long time. In India, we have organisations; we have nonprofit organisations. We’ve been working on a variety of issues, on really serious issues, right from poverty to education to child rights and so on.
And so I want to kind of come back to terms like, How do you think organisations in the social development space can use this medium to tell their story more effectively?
Prashant: See, the NGOs really think that we’re doing grass-roots work. I mean, they’re representatives; they’re volunteers—those who want to contribute to social work. They really go to the grassroots, to the remotest of remote places in India or in each and every state or district. And then how did we get to know once their work was highlighted?
“Backing up your work with proper visual documentation helps you connect with people.”
So if they back up their work with proper visual documentation, that will really connect with the people—those who actually want to be associated with them in the future—and that will also help them get an idea. See, this NGO is working with the child, right? This NGO is working on water issues. This NGO is working on gender inequality.
So why not? I mean, I would like to associate with them. Then maybe it will definitely help them in fundraising as well, which is a really crucial aspect, or most important aspect, to getting the work going. So that way, effective visual documentation, primarily the photographs and, of course, the videos, is also equally important in generating curiosity, and it really helps in raising the funds as well. That’s what I strongly feel.
Simit: I keep saying this to people around me and my colleagues: I see that there is a clear correlation between organisations that are able to tell their story effectively and those that are able to raise resources more effectively. So if you see some of the organisations in India, for instance, who are able to tell their story effectively, let us think of the case of CRY, WWF, or Greenpeace. These are organisations that will always have very strong visuals, and these are also organisations that people are able to connect with, and people know about them because they have built a brand using visual communication.
Prashant: Simit, the important aspect of this is that the people who work with this organisation should also have a similar kind of thinking. They should have that vision. Listen, my people and my volunteers are looking for things that should be documented, the kind of work we’re doing, and that vision is not there in many of the NGOs. I mean, that does not mean that they are not doing good work. Of course they are doing good work, but that work is not reaching the masses. I mean, people don’t know that this NGO is doing this.
“Vision to document stories is missing in many NGOs.”
Simit: So could you share why it is important for organisations to kind of invest in this? Because generally, like most organisations, they feel that implementing the project on the ground or implementing the programme on the ground is much more crucial. And everything else, whether it is documentation or anything else, comes in as secondary. So could you share your thoughts on this?
Prashant: I mean, they are right. They are right on their part that implementing the project is the most crucial and important thing, but it is equally important to document that implementation. See, it comes in three broad categories. I feel the ones you see are the problem areas, where the NGOs find out exactly where the problem is. See, for example, the water crisis. I mean, they will go to the remotest part where there’s a water crisis. People are the tribes or people are facing the issue, the water issues. They walk kilometres or kilometres to fetch one pot of water. That’s a problem area that the volunteers will see.
Second, when the problem actually intervenes, they see what the best we can do for the NGO is. So, they may give some remedy there. Okay. You use water, or you use something else, to solve your problem. And the third is how it helps them—the programme intervention, how it helped them, how it benefited them. I mean, kind of an impact—what impact? See these three basic steps for each and every task. Whatever work you do is really important to get documented professionally, like how you work on the field with a dedicated team of volunteers, you should have a dedicated team of photographers and video journalists as well.
Why do we remember these few NGOs names when we talk about or when we give the example of NGOs like CRY, Save the Children, Water Aid, and Greenpeace? Why? I would say that because we immediately connect the visuals—what they give in their annual reports or the visuals, what they show on the website, on their Instagram account, or on their Twitter account—that visuals really have a strong connection.
And the reason that strong connection exists is because they have a dedicated team or a dedicated budget for the team to whom they’re giving this assignment. And that is really, really important. I mean, look, the other NGOs are also doing good work. I mean, no denial of that. But if we don’t give the budget for proper documentation, it would help. If we don’t keep the budget, you’re not going to get good, proper documentation that effectively showcases your own work.
And then that’s a kind of drawback.
“It is crucial to have a dedicated team and budget for visual communication.”
Simit: Right. But one of these is like a catch-22 situation for most nonprofits because they don’t have the budget to keep their budget. And that’s why they are not able to have a dedicated person.
Prashant: Budget is the most crucial factor everywhere. Now, why NGOs? It’s everywhere.
Simit: Absolutely. So they need photographs to get a budget or raise funds. But to raise funds, I mean, they don’t have the budget. So, where do you start?
Prashant: Yeah, I mean, look, Simit, What you say is right, but there is always a way out once you think about it. There is always a way out. The think tank within the NGO can always train the staff. Volunteers are those who go on the field and witness the situation, the access, the situation, and the gravity of the situation.
They can always document it professionally, but for them, they can organise a workshop for them; for the professionals, at least they can have the budget for that. So in the long term, it will be beneficial for the NGO itself. I mean, if their staff is doing a good job, then why the hell do they need to have a separate budget? to give it to the production company or to be a freelance video journalist or photojournalist?
Simit: Actually, that brings me to my next question, which is: how can NGOs train their staff when it comes to photography? How can organisations build the capacities of people within their organisation so that they are able to take good-quality visuals?
Prashant: Right, right. See, when it comes to the technical aspects, there are thousands and lakhs of videos there on YouTube. So those who are really keenly interested can always learn them online. There are also paid courses, so they can have them for their staff or volunteers. Yes. But at the same time, they can organise a quick workshop, maybe two days or three days, with the professional.
Those who are into these fields, mainly those who are into journalism, photojournalism, and video journalism, have a greater connection and have the experience of documenting similar situations over a period of years, so they can rope in those professionals for the workshops that will help them. And at the same time, they can take those professionals on the field to train their volunteers. Look, this is the way you can document the subject, the same thing, the similar content they can edit also back to the office, you can edit or compile your files or you can have a proper image that backs the tools to help you in the future. So there is always a way out as well. But the workshop will be, I guess, the best thing to have to train the staff and volunteers.
“NGOs can rope in photographers and journalists to train their staff.”
Simit: In fact, this was something that we had started doing for a certain organisation that we are working closely with. The idea was, how can we train their field-level staff? to take at least decent-quality pictures. Because when we manage social media accounts for organisations, one of the challenges that I face is that the quality of pictures that we get from the field staff is not of great quality.
And we always struggle to kindly put them together or use them. So my idea was: how can I at least improve, at least slightly if not? I don’t expect professional-quality photographs from the field staff because that’s not something that they are trained for or that’s not their job.
Their job is probably to implement the project on the ground. And this is just a side activity, or this is like an additional task that they have been given. But at least if we can bring them to a certain level where they at least know the basics of photography, I feel that that would be like a kind of step in that direction.
Prashant: Like it is. It is a great step ahead, actually, only to save your budget. So, yes, I mean, proper training for the staff and the volunteers is really important.
Simit: So if I had to ask you, if you could share maybe the top five tips on how people work in the field, how can they improve their photography? What would you say?
Prashant: There are a few basic things one should remember, not just the technical aspect, but the NGOs or the CSR activity for the corporations. What you are working for, you should understand the philosophy of what they are working for, what purpose they’re working for, and that should reflect in the photograph and in the videos you’re taking. That philosophy should reflect, for example, if there is a water crisis and you have been there, it’s basically humanity at the end of it.
“Understanding philosophy is the key to taking a good photo.”
So that humanity angle should be reflected in the kind of work you’re documenting. How will that reflect on you? You should interact with the audience and with the people for whose benefit you’re working there. So, once they are friendly with you, you naturally get a good mood image of them. Maybe they are looking at the camera or looking away from the camera, but the right mood should be there.
Second, you must understand the light condition when you’re shooting the picture, especially in digital. The harsh light you can always avoid while documenting this fact, especially in the morning for 4-5 hours and late afternoon for 4-5 hours, is the best time to shoot the golden hour. Everybody’s talking about the golden hour rule; that is really nice. Maybe morning 6:30 to 10:30-11 in the morning or afternoon time, say 3:30 to evening 6:30, sunset time. The twilight effects really add some good mood to your vision, which really stands out when you see it on a large screen.
The third most important aspect is how you place your subject. How are you shooting it? For example, if you’re shooting a water crisis situation and they’re really walking far away, it’s right to fetch a small pot of water. So you have to experience that. I mean, you can also walk with this subject directly, and you can feel the pain. You can feel the pain, and unless you don’t feel that, you won’t get that gravity in your vision.
Yeah, well, documenting again, always. I mean, there are a few basic rules, like a rule of third, or there is a point of existence, which means you are keeping yourself in the centre, which shows the existence, a centre point in a 35mm frame. It shows the existence of roughly a rule of third in any one-third frame; one third corner of your frame shows it balances your frame, so you can keep that one-third format also. These are basic things you can implement when you’re documenting this fact, but they’re really important.
Simit: Okay, I often see a lot of organisations taking advantage, especially when they’re doing any sort of relief activity or doing some activity with the community. They would stand in a queue or they would stand and directly look into the camera while giving something almost like a ‘Shadi ka Photo.’
Prashant: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, the staff who volunteer—this is another very, very important point, actually. This is not a funny thing, but it’s a really important thing. Some images that I keep going through—that annual report or seeing it online—are like wedding pictures. The visitors go on the stage, and they give them a gift, and after that, there’s a group photo or there’s a politician who’s getting the ribbon-cutting photo. I mean, the images should not be like that. Find that in maybe a one- or two-column part of that report, or maybe somewhere down in thumbnails, but that should not be a primary visual. There has to be the right mood.
“People should not take wedding-style photos for their work.”
Simit: And so if an organisation had to, let’s see the same situation where there is a relief activity, maybe a COVID relief activity, and an organisation is giving away nutritional kits, food, or grocery stuff to a community. How can they capture that, if not, let’s say, the shadi wala style? How can they capture it? Can you share your thoughts?
Prashant: When is somebody coming there to get that relief? Obviously, they are a needy person; that’s how they are distributing the work. So their urge and their need have to be documented. Why do they need it if one can go further extensively? I mean, further ahead, he can always travel back at least one or two cases. What are they going to do with that kit, with that medical kit, or with the grocery? How are they going to use it?
Simit: There were a lot of things that you talked about, like shooting in certain light conditions and all of that, or even the technical aspects. A lot of organisations and their field staff are shooting on their mobile phones. They may not even have a digital camera. So, is mobile photography sort of good enough, according to you? Is there anything that they can keep in mind when they are shooting using just the mobile camera?
Prashant: Any form of photography you use is good. That’s what I feel. The equipment is secondary. What you think and what you want to shoot are most important. Why are people using mobile devices? Maybe the budget issues or the accessibility, because mobile is always handy, so why not let’s use this? So why not shoot a better picture on mobile?
There are professional documentaries, I think, shot on iPhone. There are professional documentaries shot on the Google phone or on the Samsung as well. So why is she shooting that? Let’s keep that professional approach. Again, it’s a choice of the think tank in use and what they can offer to the staff or the volunteers. But using mobile phone photography requires an arm, and you cannot avoid that nowadays.
“The equipment is secondary. What you shoot is most important.”
Simit: I want to move on to a slightly different kind of question: in terms of when chandi people are shooting on the field, what are the things that they need to keep in mind when it comes to privacy, when it comes to sensitivity to a certain way or a certain kind of topic? Could you talk?
Prashant: This is really an important, important question. So, when you shoot a particularly sensitive subject, like, say, we shoot any minors, those who are below 12 or 14 years old, their consent is really necessary, and I guess the NGOs, who’ve beeninto the field for years and years, are aware of that. Those are the photographers who are shooting. Their sign and their consent by the parent and the minors are necessary.
“The consent of family is very important.”
Second, when you’re shooting any affected people—the sexually abused or the child abuse—the cases, you just cannot show the faces. You just cannot. I mean, it is insensitive in the first place, in my opinion. It is also illegal; if you want to show it effectively, okay, fine. Then you shoot it in such a way, with their consent, of course, that their identity is not visible. You may shoot a silhouette while you’re shooting a photo or shooting a video; just show where they’re giving, where they’re talking in front of the camera, just show the lip moment, or maybe just the year, or maybe just their insecurity or how disturbed they are, maybe with their finger moments, the body language.
There are many, many ways in which we can show it effectively. So these are really, I cannot say, minor things, but these are really sensitive and important things that need to be kept in mind while documenting these people and these cases.
Simit: So, Prashant, over the last few years, you have done many assignments, including some for nonprofits. So what has been your experience like? And if you could share maybe some stories that you have covered in the last few years,
Prashant: Yes, Simit, I mean, I can share; I can definitely share examples. I’m working on the project even now. It’s called Jeevanshala—life. It is a school for tribals who’re affected by the larger project, the Sardar Sarovar Project, or SSP, as people know it by now. Those tribals get displaced every time there is a rise in the dam height, when the backwater of the dam keeps rising, and when the tribals stay at the back of the Narmada River.
They keep shifting their hamlet from one place to another; they keep going higher up. So I documented that over a period of years.
So, the tribals started school for their kids because they got cheated over a pair of years, or students or kids should not face the same tragedy as what they did. So they want them to be educated.
This started the school called Jeevanshala, which was self-funded with the help of Narmada Bachao Andolan activists. So literally, the school is located in the remotest area in Narmada Valley; it’s on the bank of the Narmada River, which goes from Maharashtra, Gujarat, to Madhya Pradesh.
So I visited a few schools. I stayed there. I stayed with the students there. I saw how it was going on. That’s how there is some kind of connection with the subject among the students there. So in documenting that, I travel with the teachers when they go with their relief material, with the groceries, and with the ration kits to the schools. I travel with them, crossing the river banks and small river channels, and I go to the school. I saw the school’s condition there, and even after the school got so much When there is a rise again in dam height and backwaters, the school got so much. I document that also. It gives a perfect impact; in my opinion, it gives a perfect impact. It shows the situation and how they’re affected.
Simit: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much, Prashant, for sharing this story. Yeah, I hope we can do a lot more sessions like these. I
I think it was wonderful to have you here today.
Prashant: Thank you. Thank you, Simit. Thank you.
Simit: Thank you so much, Prashant.